Category: Animal House
Hi all:
I have a question that I hope you can help me with. I've had Voyager for almost three years now, in all that time I think I've been in the wrong following position. I had a trainer come out a year in to our partnership and work with me, but sometimes I find that I'm still confused from time to time. Should I be up near the dog's shoulders, or near his hindquarters? I've found that the farther back I am the more I can feel his movements. I hope this question isn't to stupid. Anyways, I'd love some advice if you can give it.
I was trained to be positioned more toward the hindquarters of the dog. If you're walking too close to the front, it's much harder for the dog to stop you in time, if he/she comes across and obstacle, curb, etc.
I second post 2. It's been 12 years since I've had training, but you can feel what you need to with longer reaction time if your walking towards the hine quarters. Plus, your harness should be easier to hold in this placement...I had the stiff one, I don't know about yours.
My Harness is a direct connect. I don't really like it, because the handle moves around a lot, and when Voyager slows down, the handle pushes forward, it's kind of a noosence. Thanks for the great advice.
Ok, wait a minute, we have two problems here. First of all, if your harness handle is going forward when your dog slows down then you are not pulling back properly. You must maintain tention always, even when the dog slows. It doesn't matter what sort of handle you have, this is always the case. Second of all, we have some confusion here on positioning. There are two positions, that which you wind up in when you are stopping beside the dog and that in which you walk. When you walk you should be next to the dog's hind quarters, with your hip just an inch or so ahead of their bum, but never, ever behind the dog. When you stop you need to step up into "ready" position. This means that your hip is just at the dog's shoulder. You should never ever end up ahead of your dog or step ahead of your dog once you have stopped. Being even with your dog's head is considered ahead of them and it is very unsafe, especially at curbs. You can not react properly if you are too far forward, but if you walk too far back the dog can not gide you properly, you may step on them or trip over them and if you are in the wrong position and you trip or fail to clear an obsticle, you must realize that it is your fault, not your dogs. I hope this helps. Maybe your school does not do this, and if they do not I don't know where to reccomend that you get one, but many schools, including mine gave us a very helpful cassette tape with extremely in depth, detailed spacific instructions on positioning, body language and the importance of non-verbal communication with your dog. We all slip up with this (I certainly do) but it is normal and as long as you make a concerted effort to remember you will find that you reposition and correct your self often, greatly helping your dog.
Thanks very much for the advice. I do keep constant pressure, but because of this darn handle, the moment I accidently let up on the pressure, the handle moves. I'll certainly try what you've told me. No, my school doesn't give me tapes, but they might if I asked. Thanks again.
That's odd. I am always quite far back when i'm working my dog... In fact, I think she guides better when i'm there, as she has more manouvering room. I'm not right behind her, but i'm not even with her bum either. I know that you should walk with your harness hand by your leg, but I just couldn't do it. I like a longer reaction time, and being further frward reduces that. I walk about 3 or 4 inches behind where I should be. My harness arm is straight, and at about a 30 degree angle from my body. I've never stood on the dog, no matter how far back I am, as I stay out to the side of her.
I think, to answer your question, that, provided both you and the dog are safe, it doesn't matter on your positioning. Just work with what you and the dog are comfortable with, provided that you are not at risk.
HTH
Carly
To the last poster. Just about every school would discourage a strait arm, although, it could be the harness, not your fault. Maybe a shorter handle would allow you to be in the right place. I know it is hard to pull and have the right positioning at first because it actually requires some serious muscle strength. That and our left arms are usually noticeably weaker at first than our right arms as most people are right hand dominant. All four of the trainers I have worked with at Fidelco and both of the class trainers at G E B would periodically ask during riggerous training "Does your arm or shoulder hurt?" If anyone said no they would go and assess their position and nine times out of ten the positioning would be wrong. Even second and third time dog handlers would often have terrible positioning in class because they either got out of the right habbit over time or because they were not origionally properly trained when many schools were not yet aware of just how important the positioning and harness tention can be. To the origional board creator, have you approached the school about getting a longer or shorter handle or about getting one that connects differently to the harness? I've used handles that attach with metal clips that floated the handle and I absolutely hated them, even though the floating harness handles are the best for garding against slackening by the handler. I found that the harnesses Fidelco uses, compared to the ones from G E B are still floating, but have leather connectors that float but don't move quite so easily and that don't slide the damn handle through the rabit ears too far. I really really like these much better. Maybe your school offers something like them.
Here, you're taught to have the harness handle lined up with the seam that goes down the side of your clothing. You're meant to step up to the dog's head when stopping,but in truth, I tend not too
Hi,
I've had 2 dogs from gdb and I am now 3 weeks in to my first dog from Fidelco! There a fine school by the way!
I wasn't sure I was going to like there harness but the more I use it the more I like it. Peter my trainer was constantly on me about my handle grip but hey, that's us old dog new tricks thing. I guess his chiding worked cause I find myself correcting my self now! the way it was described to me and Fidelco's stance is that your dog isn't so much pulling you as walking with you, I don't need someone to pull me I can walk just fine on my own. When you walk sided guide your guide isn't pulling you but guiding you, that's made my traveling a hole lot more comfortable.
To poster 8, I apologise, as I wasn't clear enough. My arm isn't straight. I have a bend in the elbow, but it's straighter than it would be if I stepped up a little when walking with the dog.
First, gotta say although not traveling in the company of a fidelco dog I did apply and had the interview. I really liked the harness and wanted one of those. I was accepted to the school but found out that an instructor from seeingeye who trained me two dogs ago was going to be in class so I elected to wait for his class at seeineeye since he new me very well and how I worked with a dog. I've heard great things about those lovely pointy eared creatures and have met a couple. But, I digress: Here are my thoughts regarding harness pull and positioning. Not having gone to any other school I can only speak from the experience I have had at the Eye. I like a good pull. Sometimes my reaction time is slow and I need allot of information from the dog. Durring training My instructors have always watched my positioning and as we would go through the course of instruction if there were problems they would change the handle to accomiate this. With this dog I needed a handle with n offset beccause I was unfortunately stepping on my beloved furr friend. I have noticed that if I use too long a handle the dog isn't comfortable and will not work at the proper speed. Okay! really, I walk about 4 miles per hour as clocked by GPS. I also like to lean back in to the pull. This gives me enough reaction time to slow down when he does. When we walk there is no play in the harness at all. the type of pull that works for me will not allow for it. So, for me I need constant tention to know what is going on. If you slow down you slow down your should not move forward and your handle should not either. The dog should always be ahead of you and there should always be some tention on the handle so you can feel teh dogs movements. I do remember when interviewing with fidelco they also said it's more like walking with the dog not being pulled by the dog. Different schools have different approaches and it would be good to have an instructor visit you from your school to evaluate your needs regarding this problems. Remember, you always want to be able to feel your dogs movements you never know when he might be trying to get you out of the way of something. Give voyager a big hug. That's a great name for a dog.
Fidelco's stance is great but a little confusing. They do want you to "walk" with your dog in that the dog should not be toeing or dragging you, but there should be some pull, some tention. Just like when you are lead sighted guide you put enough tention that your guide knows you're still there, but you don't drag back on them. Well, unless it's late at night and all of a sudden some lame college frat boys run out of the alley in front of you, in which case it is perfectly acceptable to hall back on your guide's arm and have a mini freakout before regaining composure as your guide will most likely be having their own mini freakout at the time and won't notice the circulation being cut off to their hand momentarily. rofl
Here's an easy way to get the harness to stay where you want it. Zip tie it. You can also buy things that tabs, so you can put them in, the harness is immovable, and when you don't need it, take them off. I can tell you right now Amazon has some for three bucks.
Hi all:
I just wanted to update you all. Voyager and I are doing much better. My arm muscles are getting better used to the tenchon, and my school came out to give me a straight handle. I can feel the dog a lot better with that one anyway. I was given an offset handle at first because I was having trouble following the dog. I will definately look in to the zip ties. The less the handle moves, the better. Thanks for all your help.
Hey Wild orca. I just wanted to say thanks for making this post, and I wish I would have checked the boards earlier. My dog has been doing the exact same thing this semester, and I never realized how little focus I was putting on tension in the handle. It just serves to remind me that it's usually my mistake and not my pup's that's causing the problem. Glad to hear things are going better. I know I've felt a significant improvement since I started paying attention to how the harness feels.
Wow, I had know idea that others were feeling the same way as me. I'm glad this post helped someone else.
hey! I'm glad I came across this post. I've applied to GDB, and should be getting info on wether or not I got in here in a few weeks. The guy that came to do my home interview acted like he thought i'd get in, so I really hope I do. This post gave me a little better idea on what may happen with guidedogs.
"This post gave me a little better idea on what may happen with guidedogs." Remember that each dog is different.